Thursday, November 20, 2008

Love Is...

California just went through (and is still going through) their measure 8 campaign. A couple years ago Oregon had Measure 36 where marriage was defined.

I’m always stunned to hear the argument spin in a strange direction where opponents will say something like, “If we allow two women or two men to marry one another, where will we draw the line? Will we allow men to marry sheep and women to marry dogs?” I’m not so stunned that the argument goes in that direction, but I am stunned that people aren’t more accepting of interspecies relationships.

We were brought up with interspecies relationships. Aside from Bugs Bunny cross-dressing and flirting with Elmer Fudd and planting wet and sloppy, full-on-the-lips kisses on him, there have been quite a few other examples in popular media that we’ve all come to accept. There was Miss Piggy and Kermit, a frog and a pig. There was Roger and Jessica Rabbit, a human and a rabbit. Beauty and the Beast, a human and some weird thing that wasn’t human. Brian, the dog on Family Guy dated several women and desires Lois. He was the object of sexual desire from Meg and Stewie. Peppy Le Pew, a skunk had a thing for cats. Krazy Kat was in love with Ignatz the mouse who would always hit Krazy in the head with a brick. Let’s not forget Howard the duck.

So appears that we’ve been indoctrinated with interspecies relationships since the beginning of story telling and it is fully acceptable as entertainment, yet society is not accepting of two people that love one another that want to commit their lives to one another, while being productive members of society and assets to the community. Society wants to prevent them marrying and enjoying the benefits that others who are in love can legally share. If society isn't ready to share legal marriage with all humans that love, maybe marriage should be banned for everyone.


Blogger dalia said...


i've never heard the argument for interspecies marriage, but you make a damn good point against the people who can't fathom the idea of same-sex marriage.

my mother is one of the ones uncomfortable with same-sex unions, and i always ask her "it doesn't affect you, why does it matter?" she can't articulate it, she just shakes her head... although she admits that if my cousin wanted to get married to another guy, she would go in support.

i don't see what the big deal is. let them live, love and marry... it doesn't impinge on my rights as a straight gal, so who am i to say i don't/won't/can't accept same-sex unions?

i don't understand. especially in this day and age. i mean, didn't a black man just get elected to the white house!? : )

keith olbermann makes the best argument for it, though:

it made me teary.

6:03 AM  
Blogger Trop said...

Interesting observation. Well done.

6:14 AM  
Blogger Jaggy said...

All of your fictional characters also talked. I think everyone realizes the difference between Bugs Bunny smoochin' Elmer Fudd and a grown man wanting to marry a rabbit.

I'm totally on your side when it comes to civil unions being open to everyone (though my friends think I'm going straight to Hell for it). Your argument is a different perspective, and I do appreciate it.

But did you have to bring up Howard the Duck? *shudders*

7:25 AM  
Blogger darev2005 said...

Love is love is love. All you need is love. Love is all you need. There was a time when you could be jailed for marrying outside of your religeous faith. There was a time when you would be killed for marrying outside of your "race". There are places even now where you can be shot for making the sign of the cross in a different direction than everybody else. The time will come when enough people will realize it's okay and make it legal. I'm not saying do nothing. By all means let's press the issue through. When the time is right, it will happen and the world will be a slightly better place.

8:14 AM  
Anonymous gearhead said...

It is unfortunate that we have let out mental health care system fail so miserably.
Living on the outskirts of Salem where the State Mental Hospital has slowly failed, we have seen people with every type of mental / emotional issue roam the streets.
Being "accepting" is not the answer.
Broken minds need help.
Although I agree with our new president and voters on gay marrage; there is no law that replaces good mental health care.

9:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ahhhh...Canada, where the men are men and the women are too...and the sheep are nervous.


1:50 PM  
Blogger Uncle Walt said...

If you want to go back even farther for interspecies relationships - take a look at legends and myths ... not to mention religion.

Greek mythology had the minotaur, a result of interbreeding between a bull and woman. Then there's centaurs.

Native American tribes, many of them, have legends of their people coming about as a result of interspecies breeding. Say, between the "bear god" and a human maiden.

Even the Bible mentions the Nephalim. A group of "monsters" born as a result of interspecies breeding between "heavenly hosts" or "demons" and humans.


I think a better question about homosexual marriage is ... why do they (honestly) want it? The "same rights" argument is bullshit. Except for the piece of paper from the government, they can already get the "same rights" as a heterosexual married couple.

That piece of paper does nothing except give a "leg up" on claiming property rights. Want that benefit? Write a will or power of attorney. Those are more concrete than a marriage certificate, anyway.

Do they want to force churches to marry them? Well, getting homosexual marriage legal won't accomplish that. Churches have complete say in who they marry. And as we've already seen, some will marry homosexual couples now - without a government license. If they don't now, they probably won't if it becomes legal.

Personally, I think the government should get out of the marriage business entirely. I mean, how can we call our country "the land of the free" when we have to ask government permission to marry?

I think the homosexual community is going about it all wrong. They should take pride in being able to wed without government permission. They should lead the way in showing we don't need government in our marriages.

2:18 PM  
Anonymous Ginger said...

I have heard that a woman married her cat, or guy who married his horse...something like that. Over 20 years ago I dated a black family was up in arms about it. He was TALL (7'to be exact), rich and famous, loving, kind, smart..all the things you would want for your daughter. The color of his skin made him off limits in their eyes. We dated for 9 months...until I met my husband. I fell in love immediately...a shorter man, although average for a white guy...He too is loving, kind, smart...the funniest person I've ever met..all the things you would want for your daughter...hands off girls, he's mine! Anyway, back then it was interracial, now it's same time, I hope people see that love is love, no matter what color, sex, religious belief, etc.(as long at they are of legal age and no one is getting hurt). I once heard a person try to justify that same sex marriages should not be allowed because "those gays are going to ruin the sanctity of marriage"...I laughed and said "the heterosexuals have been doing that since the beginning of marriage". My dad married 3 times, my mother married 3 times, my father-in-law is on his 5th or 6th, am I missing something? Heterosexual divorce is at WHAT PERCENT? AND, I have known more gays/lesbians to have better morals and longer commitments than hetero married people. My husband jokes that "if heterosexuals have to suffer through marriage, then gays SHOULD HAVE TO ALSO!". You can see why I married him. Marriage is merely a legal contract between two people (it's a tax thing)..some marry in a church...some by a clerk in Hoodriver, the place where they had their first date (my brother was my bridesmaid)...either way, you should be able to make that legal commitment w/ whomever you choose...and maybe limit it to one at a time :)

5:02 PM  
Blogger richpix said...

Uncle Walt, you say, "I think a better question about homosexual marriage is ... why do they (honestly) want it? The "same rights" argument is bullshit. Except for the piece of paper from the government, they can already get the "same rights" as a heterosexual married couple." Really? Can they file taxes jointly as a married couple can? Can they visit each other in the hospital when they're not considered married or next of kin (without a separate state law)? Do they have automatic rights of inheritance when the other passes away as a married couple would? How about adoption? Insurance?

For a gay couple to get most of these things they have to jump through hoops whereas a married heterosexual couple gets them (and countless other things) automatically when the marriage is official. Check this out:

I call bullshit on your "why do they (honestly) want it?"

5:38 PM  
Blogger Hahn at Home said...

Guy, think of the TAX'll never happen!
; )

Thanks for this - teh gayz love you.

5:55 PM  
Blogger Lachlan said...

"The "same rights" argument is bullshit."

I call BS too.

In most states, I cannot legally inherit joint property from the woman I spend my life with, cannot visit her in the hospital, and would likely lose a court battle to have her DNR order observed. Oh, and taxes. That, in my mind, is BS.

My fight for marriage equality is a battle against inequality- WHY, as a tax-paying American, should I have to pay ridiculous lawyer fees to secure what any heterosexual couple gets when married?

I don't want a church to marry me and never have. What I want for me, and for all gay couples, is equal protection under the law. Marriage is not a religious institution, no matter what anyone tries to tell you- and that simple fact is proven by the gov't involvement. If it weren't a civil matter, I doubt this conversation would even be happening.

7:09 PM  
Anonymous g said...

the best one i heard during the "8" campaign is that if it passes, it would make my dog gay.

8:02 PM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

I don't have much to add here, but Moose, you are too funny. But I heard it was whores and hockey players...

Ginger, I think Polygamy is actually a good idea. Check my archives from May of 06 for the article.

Gearhead, the 70s called and they want their theory back.

To think this all started because I wanted to out which cartoon characters were doing each other. Peace!

5:15 AM  
Blogger Uncle Walt said...

Can they file taxes jointly as a married couple can?

Better yet, they can file separately with one claiming "head of household" ... which gives better tax breaks.

Can they visit each other in the hospital when they're not considered married or next of kin (without a separate state law)?

Yes, they can. ANYBODY can visit a person in the hospital, unless the patient requests limited visitors - or the doctor has limited visitors for health reasons (infectious disease, etc).

Nor does being married mean you automatically can enforce a person's DNR order. Or have you forgotten the recent Florida case, where the husband wanted "to pull the plug" - but the parents went to court to prevent it?

You can name ANYBODY your executor. You can give ANYBODY power of attorney. If you want to be under a DNR order - put it in writing, and make sure you name who is to make the decision to "pull the plug" and under what circumstances. That is the best way to give it legal weight - but still won't guarantee your wishes are carried out. After all, if it's challenged the hospital keeps getting paid for every day you're there.

Do they have automatic rights of inheritance when the other passes away as a married couple would?

Who said married couples do? Without a will, being married is NOT a guarantee of inheritance. Especially if another family member challenges "who gets what".

How about adoption?

Again, yes. Have you missed the news stories about homosexual couples adopting?

But don't even get me started on the idiotic adoption requirements the government has. That's an entirely different issue.


Yes. You can put anybody you want on your insurance. At least my insurance company allows it, as long as they are a member of your "household".


Now I have a question ... If we need to legalize "gay marriage" to make things "fair", what about "common law marriage"? Why should a heterosexual couple, who don't think they need permission from "the church" or government to be married, have to be together a certain number of years to be recognized as married? Is that "fair"?

7:48 AM  
Blogger Hahn at Home said...

Uncle Walt - clearly you have strong opinions - and your facts have some basis in reality, but, are for the most part faulty on some level.

And, I'd be happy to argue the point if you want to contact me.

I find it rather insulting in fact.

I could give a rat's ass what we call it as long as it's uniform and absolutely the same in every single way in every single state and federally. Until that time, it's all a bunch of horse manure.

1:52 PM  
Blogger Zoe said...

Thanks guy! I love it when people go for the interspecies arguement. How is that even linear thinking? That is quite a jump in logic. I guess I could see the arguement if dogs, cats, horses, ect were tax paying citizens and whose rights were therefore protected by the U.S. Constitution.

I would like to throw in, for those answering why we would want marriage rights, or as I would say, equal rights, that while we can get some legal protections, not all legal protections carry over state to state. So while my partner and I have an arrangement in Indiana, that arrangement may not hold weight if we moved to Mississippi, or Arkansas, or where ever.

Also, adoption by gays is banned in even for single people in 2 states, and is banned for gay couples in 4 states, and is a huge gray area in about 35 states. It is only really consistantly legal in 10 states.

Imigration is another issue. If I meet and fall in love with someone who is here on a visa, it's just tough luck for us when the visa runs out because we can not marry. If we could marry, they could stay here legally.

Inheritance tax is another issue. Social security is another. And while yes, I can be on my partener's insurance, she has to pay tax on the imputed income.

You know, really it actually pisses me off quite a bit when staight people to tell me that I can get all the same legal protections that a marriage license would give me, when in fact I can't. I think most people just don't have a freaking clue what they are taking for granted with. So give me that bull shit.

The state can call it what they will, marriage, civil unions, legal partnerships, as long as it is the same for ALL citizen. I personally think that what you get at the court house should be a civil union. That goes for both heterosexuals and homosexuals. If you want the sacrament of marriage and want to make a covenant with your god, go to a church.

2:46 PM  
Blogger darev2005 said...

leaps in and joins Guy feverishly trying to hammer the lid back on that nasty can of worms.....

2:52 PM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

No, I'm not putting a lid on it, I stand by what I wrote, and I stand by other like minded comments. I've come to know that love is love. Having met or corresponded with many same sex couples that comment here all I can say they are the most loving people I've met. There seems to me to be a higher degree of respect between them and a high degree of honor, honesty, peace, compassion and many other qualities that make the world a better place to live. If only I could see this in more hetero couples I would actually have hope for humanity.

3:56 PM  
Blogger Hahn at Home said...

Give yer wife a big hug from me and tell her I said she done good.

4:50 PM  
Blogger darev2005 said...

lets the lid fly off and hands out bandaids and kleenex while keeping a watchful eye on the combatants.

5:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder if we'll ever be allowed to marry people who have already passed away? Like, say, since Jackie Onassis was single when she died a fella could put in an application with a fee and then be allowed to marry her. It would be fun to answer people who want to know if you're married, and answer, "Oh, I was, but my dear wife passed away-perhaps you've heard of her, her name was Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis"!

on second thought, maybe it's not such a hot idea after all

10:27 PM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

The consummation would be a bit weird. Though if the LDS Church can baptize you after you are dead, maybe they already have a way for one to marry after death as well.

5:09 AM  

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