Thursday, October 08, 2009

Let's Be Reasonable


If you have been following the comments from Monday’s sick day post I want to present a challenge to those of you that have totally fallen for the anti-LNG platform.

Can you at least admit that an LNG facility isn't as dangerous as they are making it out to be?

Can you at least admit that the environmental concerns are extremely distorted and that Bradwood it proactively mitigating and their salmon enhancement plan isn't all that bad?

Can you at least admit that dredging has had no ill effects on salmon population especially in consideration of the record runs that have been coming up the river in spite of the Columbia Deepening Project

Can you at least admit that if Bradwood happens our schools and public safety will benefit greatly from this partnership?

Can you at least admit that construction workers will prosper in this poor economy if they can work on a project such as Bradwood Landing over two years?

Can you at least admit that having 60 (as predicted) family wage jobs in the community is better than not having 60 additional family wage jobs in the community?

Finally, why is it that the opposition isn't talking about any of these positive benefits to our community?

It is because if they do talk about the benefits they will lose their base. Their house of cards will fall. Their egos and all the time they have invested in being contrary is at stake. It is quite an investment, not unlike a pyramid scheme.

Like a cult, they have used fear to control the minds of their followers. The followers have been told that there will be explosions, dead fish, restrictions on travel and river traffic, fishing and cruise ships. We will have military gun boats patrolling our shores. There will be leaks and we will all die.

These cult-like distortions are the center of the constant diatribe of the local news paper, the Daily Astorian; whose editor and publisher by the way, was a big fan of the Rajneesh Cult in Oregon. We all know how that all turned out, don’t we. They took over local politics in Antelope Oregon and tried to poison the local water supply. Is it starting to sound familiar with the red shirts and the recall campaigns?

Please, if you consider yourself as someone with an open mind, read the points above again and ask yourself if there are some possible tangible benefits that Bradwood can provide to our schools, our public safety agencies and the community as a whole in the tune of 8 million a year, every year. Then honestly ask yourself if it’s possible that you’ve been duped by the opposition. Think of this as your personal intervention.

22 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is is so hard for you to allow others to have opionions and beliefs that are different from yours own?

7:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having gas utilities, a hot water heater, stove and range was sure nice during the power outage in 2007.

Seams to be a clean fuel to use and I like CNG powered cars,

I dont like the idea of disturbing the river bottom.

but its tough to stop a moving train

7:25 AM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

Historically I have been on both sides if this argument. All I ask in this post is to consider the points listed, that is if you have an open mind. Perhaps you don't have an open mind. Maybe someone in your cult will have an open mind. As of yet I haven't seen it and I've been to the meetings and seen what goes on. They haven't been able to draw me back because all they have is talking points that don't add up when you look at relative situations elsewhere.

7:28 AM  
Blogger darev2005 said...

Since you are one of the smartest people I know, if you are for it, then I am for it. Unfortunately, until I get free and move back there, my vote doesn't count. But you have convinced me.

7:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey submit this to freel...and then try the daily a and the other papers in the county, this right on....these people have created hysteria.

7:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guy,
You didn't answer my question. Why aren't I allowed to have an opinion that is different from yours? I am sure you will tell me that I can have my own opinion but then you will call me names, tell me belong to a cult, and that I don't have an open mind.

I guess I could treat you the same way by saying you are the one who is a douche bag, belongs to the pro-LNG cult, and that you don't have an open mind. But I haven't done that have I? I haven't because I respect your right to voice your opinion.

I have been reading your blog for quite a long time now and I don't read it because I agree with your viewpoints. I come here because you often put interesting twists on a wide variety of subjects. Yeah, I don't always agree but I keep reading because you provide an opportunity to hear a different viewpoint. I keep reading because I believe you are exercising one of the most important rights we have.

9:08 AM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

Darev, you better get out more often. ; )

Anon, I posted it here, if they want to read it and use it they may. I no longer submit letters or solicit readers.

Other Anon. OK as for the Douchebag statement. As I wrote, if you are inflating claims and taking pride in destroying a native culture you are a douche. I'm a douche for many other entirely different reasons. Mostly because I like being a douche., but unless you are guilty of what I stated above, you are not a douche.

I don't really know your personal association with the invaders and it wasn't directed at you personally unless you fit the profile. As for your opinions, I've given you and all others the opportunity to comment here. I haven't deleted any comments, unlike the daily paper. If you've got something that may convince me to change my mind back, bring it on.

Thank you for your long time readership. You are right I am sometimes opinionated and unreasonable. Sometimes I change my mind. I am not part of any organized pro-LNG group. Being a long time reader you can see my progression from being anti to neutral to pro-LNG. I'm not here to brain wash. I write this stuff to hopefully open a mind or two to realities that are being over looked or glossed over or totally hidden or ignored by the opposition. Personally I feel the county will prosper even though I have no children in the school system and I'm not a frequent direct user of the public safety infrastructure. I'm thinking beyond my well being and projecting more toward people with kids that need a good education and those that have forest property that need to have their assets protected from wild fires.

So feel free to put your opinion out there but realize I will not censor those that reply to your comments unless they consist of threats.

Now do you care to address any of the questions in the post?

9:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Guy,

I'm good with all your points except:

"Can you at least admit that construction workers will prosper in this poor economy if they can work on a project such as Bradwood Landing over two years?"

I don't like this argument to justify the WalMart either, but I question it even more with Bradwood. First, it seems short-sighted, and second, wouldn't Bradwood require a mostly technically specialized workforce? How many jobs would actually be filled by local workers?

2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off, I'm against LNG but appreciate your thoughtful commentary.

The facility is not as dangerous as the tankers. The escorts and other security measures described in the Waterway Suitability Analysis are irritating at the minimum, and discourage and inconvenience other users of the river.

The deepening project has been spread over many years. It probably has little if anything to do with the salmon runs. Ocean conditions and the success of out-migration are more relevant factors.

Dredging itself is not the biggest problem with Bradwood; rather it's the changes in hydrology at that location. Let's all keep an open mind until the fisheries service scientists make a determination.

Schools and public services would be strained during the construction phase, with no additional tax revenue. After that it depends upon how much of new revenue would need to be spent supporting the LNG arrangement. So, schools could benefit.

Yes, construction worker could benefit, as could those who provide housing, goods and services to those workers from outside the area.

Family wage jobs are good, but who locally would fill them? Would we lose existing jobs or forgo alternative opportunities?

Finally, there are many styles to debate and persuasion. Some are less palatable than others. However, I do know that there are thoughtful and reasonable people on all sides of this issue.

3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most my friends are anti. I would not quite consider them a cult but for lack of a better word it'll have to do. I have to admit the Daily Fishwrapper and CC Democratic leadership have taken a page right out of the republican play book hoping to divide and conquer. Substitute LNG for abortion or gay marriage and the anti LNG crowd shows the same critical thinking prowess as the religious right. I asked an anti friend how LNG would hurt salmon. The answer had to do with fry getting sucked in with ballast water. Rather minimal impact to say the least and could actually work to the fish's advantage if done right. Floyd Holcom had has a spot on assessment of Daily Astorian editor over on the KAST coastwatch comment section. http://coastwatch.blogspot.com/2009/10/thats-odd.html#comments

3:42 PM  
Blogger g said...

If everything works out, LNG will come, blow up, and kill the coyotes that are eating the sheep.

I've heard that those LNG's kill dogs so it is my assumption it would work on coyotes?

6:42 PM  
Blogger The Guy Who Writes This said...

Anon, I’ve taken the anti development stance for so long and I’ve now given up on it. Yes, I do not support Walmart, but if there is a demand and what they are doing is legal, (placing moral on the back burner) they have the right to build and open shop. A local person that visits this blog has recently become Walmart construction certified. If he gets the contract his local family will prosper . I have no idea how local the construction teams will be on any project, but it’s more than likely they will be American workers from American companies. When they open I will not be shopping there. I will continue supporting local family businesses. Home Depot is here, but I still shop at City Lumber and Brims and Clatsop Power Equipment and Utzingers. I see these shop owners in our community. They are us. If I were to shop elsewhere I wouldn’t be able to look them in the eye.

Next Anon, may I reply with more questions?
1. How dangerous are the tankers? Have any exploded in US waters? Is this Waterway Suitability Analysis the same model that is being used in Boston Harbor? How’s that working out for them?

2. Isn’t it the nature of rivers to have a dynamic hydrology? Isn’t that way the bar charts are constantly updated?

3.Our residents will not be restricted from applying for those jobs, though some may be highly technical it sounds like a good training partnership possibilities with the college or TPJCC.

4. Is there another industry wanting to use Bradwood? I don’t see how a facility in the middle of nowhere is going to influence other potential industries in negative ways. It may even attract some due to stabilized natural gas prices in abundant supply. For those of you that have never left Hwy 30 and traveled to Bradwood/Clifton that place is four houses away from being a ghost town. Besides that what other opportunities are on the horizon? I’m not seeing any beating a path to the county. One would figure something green might come along, but they aren’t making themselves known.

There are thoughtful people on both sides, but the bad behavior on the anti side is starting to bring out the bad behavior on the pro side. At least that’s what I’ve been seeing. Thanks for your courteous response to my questions, and feel free to have at my new ones.

Final Anon, I did see that and I appreciate what Floyd had to say. Someone told me about an editorial they had today about printing 99% of the letters they receive. I know many people that have been ignored. I’ve read their letters myself and they were reasonable. Once I got a call from Webb and he tried to convince me to change my opinion. WTF? Needless to say he didn’t run my letter. The only thing I hope the Daily Astorian will do is add the words “Fair and Balanced” in a caption under their name.

g, if we only had a tar pit. Damn, I'm real sorry for your loss. The thought is haunting me.

7:01 PM  
Blogger Mom of Three said...

Here are the basics as I see them, and correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Most of the anti-LNG faction uses natural gas in their homes, so what they object to is having the facility here. That is NIMBY to the usual degree.
2. Far more hazardous materials go up and down the river each and every day via ships. Were any of those to run aground, crash, or whatever, literally an anhydrous ammonia cloud would cover the town so fast, you'd have no chance to bicker. It has been going on and will continue to go on, all the time.
3. Tankers drive through town, vulnerable to crashes, accidents, tipping over on the J-curve, whatever. If their contents spilled into the sewer grates in downtown, we could be looking at mass deaths from emissions into the air, explosions from materials discharged into the sewers, or both.
4. Is it possible that spent fuel rods are also transported via the river, given the fact that they are not allowed to be transported through many towns and cities? What would happen should one of those sink to the bottom?

The LNG holocaust of the anti-LNG side's imaginings pale in comparison to what would happen if just one of the trucks that you drive next to with your kids every single day, or just one of the ships you admire on the riverwalk encountered a FUBAR situation. In the meantime, I'd like to heat my home, thanks--and protestors, both shipped in from Portland and local, need to realize that they have had far bigger fish to fry all along.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Got a good laugh at a letter in the Daily A penned by some shrieking we're-all-doomed-bot named Susan Skinner. She was taking the Oregonian to task for their pro LNG editorial last week. Nothing new in her missive-just the same overstated fear based ranting the antis have been trying to scare people with since they started-it isn't gonna wash, though, people are now getting hip to what is going on-The thing that is really hilarious is these recent arrivals and transplants (which Ms. Skinner is undoubtedly one) keep trying to impress upon whoever is stupid enough to listen to them is that the Oregonian doesn't know what is going on! HA!!! They're the ones that are out of the loop, not the Oregonian. People are starting to understand the truth that this thing isn't about importing, it's about exporting the abundance of natural gas that is underneath certain areas of the Columbia Basin on both sides of the river. After the shipping heads and pipelines are built the drilling is going to begin and there will be huge chunks of money coming to the landowners, which will in turn bring new wealth and prosperity to the communities around the upper mid Columbia River valley. My grandparents left us a couple of thousand acres up there and the gas people are very nice to us with their generous leasing arrangements. What they are going to do for us makes the farming look like a pittance

9:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not anti LNG, but for the record Sue Skinner is a good person and has lived in Astoria for decades.

12:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, I'm sure she is, but good people can be misguided and, when caught up in a cause, can be wrong, too. Her letter doesn't give any hints or clues that she isn't a caring or gentle soul. Read the letter and you'll see-that anecdotal reference about the Coast Guard and her "two friends" is vague and included soley to enflame the passions of the antis or mislead the unconvinced that there is some sort of heavy handed evil going down. I think she went to Peter Huhtala's Coast Guard Is Evil School.

9:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many of them have been here for decades and they all believe the same thing. It must me either something that are all eating from the Co-Op or the more than subliminal constant chantings from KMUN and the Astorian. Sad to see so many people brainwashed. It's like Jonestown before the final days. I wonder if they have a suicide pact if Bradwood is built?

11:43 AM  
Anonymous Lash LaRue said...

I hope they don't pull a Jonestown,but at Jonestown they weren't allowed to leave. Nobody is going to wring their hands or gnash their teeth if a bunch of Californians decide they want to move on outta here. I for one wont, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way I do

6:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Questions: When has a LNG blown up? Jobs vs No Jobs! Just how far away does it have to be to be safe? Wish you had Trojan back now don't you?

9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bradwood Landing is a good safe haven for ships that haul drugs or don't you remember that or are you to young?

10:08 PM  
Anonymous Louis Moonsnail said...

wasn't it at Beaver, not Bradwood, that the abandoned ship full of weed covered up by rotting fish was discovered? I'm not too young to remember that.

10:37 PM  
Blogger Capt. Rich said...

For your information there is more Oil & Gas in Clatsop County than you can imagine. They did test drilling in Svensen a few years ago looking for Gas like Mist on pipeline road and they came up with Oil and lots of sweet crude. But Environmentalists would not let them get it out of the ground. Know that the forest land has been sold the new owners I bet have another thought and it is not trees! Just think of the revenue the county would receive? Jewel & Mist is just a drop in the bucket compared to the total amount of oil. No one wants drilling rigs scattered around the county just build another Biodiesel plant it is OK. Just think of pipelines & Compressor stations and work and revenue it would create with better pay that logging. Anyone who cannot remember Astoria Oil and United Module Fabricators is nuts this county would prosper!
You talk about LNG and jobs for people and you fight it all the way. If they said it might hurt the river well why don't you stop the tons of tons of Portlands garbage from coming downriver and going out to sea. Oh have another beach cleanup instead of stopping where it is coming from just travel up river by boat sometime and see the beaches and garbage strewn all over. And you complain about a LNG that is going to be built in an out of the way place like Bradwood. Where were you when it was a ghost town of rundown delapedated old homes that are now bulldozed under. Bradwood was like that for years and years and the county never did anything about it! You can't see the forest because the trees are in the way! Think don't listen to the naysayers, think responsibly do your due diligence before you speak out don't listen to the people who speak with forked tongues. And try and sell papers by yellow journalism and creating a one sided front. The same people wanted Sunday market & no bypass for log trucks. The loudest heard are the people who always have say about everything. Start thinking for yourselves! Quit whining about everything, you are the ones that went for the loudest speaker and did not do your own due diligence! Quit following the crowd and think for yourselves or else you will be doomed as a society! Don't be like California in Santa Maria find and have three trillion gallons of oil & lots of gas in three hundred feet of water instead of three thousand and not take it out of the ground. Know they are hurting because it looks horrible having those platforms so close to land. Just think of the revenue the state lost on that venture. The leases were let under the Reagan Administration and it went all the way to the supreme court and they had to give the oil companies back their money. Over 3 billon dollars. So just stay the way we are don't rock the boat and the tourists will come and traffic will be congested and don't complain when you created it by not speaking up.

11:42 PM  

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